Hammered Rims (part 2)

Continuing the saga of Hapy's rims...

Sorry Mate

As I indicated in the last post about these rims, I tried every trick in the internet playbook to get these rims off the hubs. I finally gave up and took the bus over to the local Firestone. We met Dan the manager man and Mat the Tech and explained our situation:
We have a new set of rims.
We do not want to mount tires onto them until we know they will fit properly because we can't return rims after tires have been mounted on them.
We are unable to get the old rims off.
Please remove one rim, demonstrate the new rim will fit, then we'll mount some tires, they slap them on the bus, and we're done.

Clint cutting rim

First, Mat needed to remove a rim. Mat is an old longhair VW'er with a car he intends to get buried in, so he understood what he was working on: a family member. We moved Hapy outside one of the bays, and he chocked the wheels. Some quick work with a floor jack and a tire tool and he had the front end in the air and the lug nuts off. That was where the easy stuff ended. He tried a few of the things I had tried, and added a long pry bar to the mix, but he couldn't get the wheel off either, though he put his sweat into it. He and Dan conferred. They decided that they could not remove the wheel without risking damage to a bus that they could not repair because parts for a 50 year old bus aren't as plentiful as they once were. They pointed across the street to an old VW repair shop which I had never seen before. They figured that shop could get the wheel off, and could replace whatever parts they break along the way. They didn't charge us anything for the effort, and said they would hold the tires for a few days in case we could get the old wheels free.

Disappointed, Boo and I left in separate cars. She headed for Beaverton Sub Station (treated Mat to a foot-long 2-car for his trouble) and I headed for that old VW shop. Since it was Saturday, the shop was closed. So, after a morning of hope, I was looking at an afternoon of trying to solve it myself. Again.

Food First

First, we ate subs. Now, the Beaverton Sub Station is under new ownership. After many years, Chuck has finally retired, and sold the shop to 2 of his longest tenured employees (like 20 years there), so the shop will probably remain very much the same. With food in my belly and about 1/2 a bottle of Pineapple Jarrito's in-hand, I returned to Hapy's rim.

Cut Hammer Cut

While looking at the rim with Mat, he indicated that wheel was stuck on either by the center bore or by the lugs. It was difficult to tell for sure, but it was one or the other. It was not held on by rust between the 2 surfaces. I decided I would take the most desperate of measures and start cutting the rim down with an angle grinder until it came off. With the front right corner of the bus back on a stand, I decided I would sacrifice the front passenger-side rim to figure it out. I donned my full face-shield and gloves and then started cutting around the center bore of the rim. After a few cuts, I would swing sledge-hammer to see if it would break free. I did this over and over again until I was running out of meat around the grease cap. It was about this time when a couple of our friends dropped by for an afternoon / evening of visiting. Clint likes clowning on cars and his current living situation has him without tools and a project, so he wanted to jump in. More hammer swingers always welcome.

Clint set to work on the rim, determining what Mat and I had concluded: this is not stuck in any typical way. Since I had already decided to sacrifice the rim, Clint got bold. He suggested (I agreed), and then cut the spokes in half, removing the outer rim (see the picture above). This left the hub still attached, but with greater access. We talked about various ways we could continue, but decided that drinking by the fire pit was a better idea, especially since it was getting dark, the fire had been started and our wives were already a drink ahead of us.

The following morning, I started up again. Since it was a Sunday morning, I grabbed my quiet manual hacksaw and cut along the mating edge where the rim meets hub. I cut all the way down to the studs. No effect. By then, it was after 11AM, so with the angle grinder and the hacksaw, I cut from the outer edge of a spoke towards the hub. Then, I cut between the spokes towards the center. Then, I made a cut along the backside of the spoke. I thought this would weaken the alloy enough to brake off pieces. And, I was right. Bit by bit, over the course of the afternoon, I was able to make 3 cuts, and then hammer with the 4# sledge to free some pieces. This left broken alloy against the hub and studs, but the outer edges of the studs were visible.

So... What Was It

cut, cut, cut. then
pound, pound, pound

With the alloy coming apart, I was able to see something wrapped around the studs inside the stud-hole of the alloy (see picture below). It was the inner edge of the lug nuts. These lug nuts had a small shaft that was designed to go between the hole in the rim and the stud for a snug fit. That little shaft broke off inside the rim... on every wheel... on all but one stud. So, when you buy lug nuts, make sure they are the right ones, and don't buy the cheap ones. Cheap nuts break, and the cost could be really bad if it's while driving, or it could cost you a rim. Someone once said you rarely regret buying good tools, except at the sales counter; in contrast that is the only time you don't regret cheap tools. Replace "tools" with "car parts". My lesson learned.

So, to complete the removal, I chiseled the lug nut shaft to break it and then chiseled off the remaining bits of rim, leaving a pile of alloy under the hub. I sprayed the rotor with brake cleaner and brushed the studs with a wire brush. Last, I verified the threads were clear with an old original lug nut. Now, I could test fit the new 15" rims.

Replacement Shoes

note gunk on stud

Bear in mind, I had been cutting and hammering for about 6 hours, so I was getting loopy. Still, I wanted to enter the week knowing if the rims were a fit or had to get returned. I bought these rims off eBay marketplace, and had 30 days to return them. I had possessed them for less than a week, so I had time, but I have little trust in return policies, so I wanted to get one rim on relatively quickly. I got it unboxed and unwrapped fast, and it popped right on. There is a little wiggle around the center-bore and the studs have a little too. I can rotate the wheel/rotor as a unit and nothing scrapes. So, they technically fit. But how do they look? For that, I defer to my more aesthetically aware half, Boo.

She noticed that the lines on the rim bring out all of the horizontal lines on the bus which I hadn't really noticed: the air vents in the back, the jalousies window, and then the body lines of the pop top, the sliding door, the window top/bottom, the belt line, etc. I guess there are lots of horizontal lines. The new rims are smaller in diameter than the 16" rims, but the new tires will be taller, so the bus will look more like it did with the original tires, in terms of rim -to- tire ratio. Last, the check from the front. It looks like the rim sits a little bit deeper in the wheel well, so I may be able to fit a spacer in there, if I want to.

Regardless of that decision, the next step was easy: get the new rims to the tire shop and get the new rubber installed. The step after that, getting the other 3 rims off, was the step I was most concerned with. It took me 2 full days of cutting and hammering to get the first one off. I don't think I could repeat that if I wanted to. So, thinking "work smarter not harder", we consider the root cause: junk threads on the studs holding the rim like lug nuts that don't have anything to put a wrench on. So, maybe the right cuts to make are with a hole saw around the stud. If I can run a hole saw around each stud, I should be able to remove the rim. 9/16" is just a hair larger than 14mm, and the stud is 14mm. Since a 9/16" hole saw would bind against the stud, I'm going one size bigger: 7/8". I have a shallow one from an old hole saw kit and the size should be perfect. A quick trip to the Home Despot and I'm ready to remove the other 3 rims.

That's it for today. I'll follow up once I get the tires back, the 3 old rims off and the 4 new rims mounted. After that, I'll be able to focus on the rear brakes like I intended to when this saga started. Thanks, as always, for following along-

Hammered Rims (part 1)

After many months of looking at Hapy under a big gray cover, I finally got to play with him a little bit. So, today's post is a triumphant return to posting about the bus. It got long, so it's been split into multiple posts.

Where Were We?

rear left tire

3 years ago, I replaced the 14-inch stock steel rims. The tires had not been replaced in 10 years, so they had become dangerous, and I did not want to get another set of tiny tires. Instead, I got a set of 16-inch rims for $200 from a Vanagon guy out the Portland Eastside. These are "aluminum" which I put in quotes because they aren't pure aluminum; they wouldn't be strong enough if they were pure aluminum. They are an alloy. Does that matter? Well, sort of. Pure aluminum wouldn't rust to my steel hubs. The alloys within the not-pure rims allows for that possibility. Enter today's fun. I wanted to check the brakes, knowing that the system needed a fluid refresh, the rear cylinders needed to be replaced and all of the other components needed a looking at.

Wheel Stuck
With brakes in mind, I cracked the torque on the passenger side rear wheel and got Hapy up on a jack stand. I loosened the nuts and grabbed the tire... it wouldn't budge. Hmm.. I tried a few leverage ideas. No luck. So, I tried some internet ideas that didn't work even after I shot the snot out of the mating points with PB Blaster and the Lucas Oil alternative (Tool Box Buddy).

Have the nuts loosely threaded onto the studs and....
1) swiftly drop the bus off a jack
In theory, this would "pop" the rust seal. This didn't work. It sounded dangerous in the first place, honestly, and I would not encourage this. Best case, the wheel comes free. Worst case, the wheel comes free and bends or defaces a stud. Then what?

2) rock the bus (your car) back and forth
This assumes that the bus/car is back on the ground with the nuts loosened. The idea is, you rock the car/bus side-to-side, not front to back. This didn't work, but I liked it better than roughly dropping the bus from a height.

3) drive the bus forward and back, slamming on the brakes
This idea had some controversy on the net. There were those pointing out that you should never drive around without your lug nuts tight. Having helped another person who had a wheel fall off when the nuts hadn't been tightened, I understand the fear. I tried it anyway. It didn't work.

4) drive the bus around in a figure 8 pattern
Like number 3 above, this has the same controversy. After this didn't work, I combined numbers 3 and 4 together, but that also didn't work.

5) drive the bus off curbs
Doesn't this feel like we're just getting into more and more dangerous ideas? What's next, drive the bus off a loading dock? Yeah, I drove it off the curb anyway, albeit slowly, like under 10mph. This didn't work either.

Hammering
So, then I started looking at even more aggressive ideas. Again, nuts loosely on so the rim doesn't completely fall off and start rolling away on you...

6) while holding a block of wood against the inside of the rim (you're under the car now), whack it with a 4# sledge hammer
I started with my hand way choked up on the handle so it was almost touching the hammerhead. It made no difference. I moved further and further out on the handle, and rotated the wheel so I made contact all the way around. No difference. By the end of this effort, I was holding the sledge at the end of the handle, using a full arm swing as I struck the rubber tire (wood got totally smashed anyway and I needed both hands to swing hammer). It was a great workout, and I could see the entire rim shudder, but it wouldn't give.

Since this seemed like the most probable option, I then started a daily routine of spraying with a penetrant (PB Blaster, LucasOil Tool Box Buddy) and then hammering. Meanwhile, I started looking at options for how I could cut the rims off, recognizing that I would need new rims and tires afterwards (so, signing up for $1000US of unplanned cost). Plus new rotors and drums, pads and shoes for another three hundred, now that they are all coated in oil. Neat.

Lets Get Crazy
7) wrecking bar
I tried putting a wrecking bar (looks like an old man's cane, but it's super strong steel) behind the rim, with the 90* bend against the drum. By pressing against the end of the bar, there's considerable leverage. Just pulling or pushing on the bar didn't work. Then, I tried hammering on the end of the bar with the 4# sledge. That didn't work either, but the way it bounced off the rim, it told me that was a bad idea. I could have hurt myself or the bus from the recoil. So, dear reader: don't hammer the bar.

8) put a tire jack between the frame and the rim
Yes, this sounds crazy, but I tried it anyway, after a week of daily application of penetrating oil. This didn't work either. Nor did more hammering, changing to a different penetrating oil (Kano Labs' Kroil)... gasp. pant pant pant.

9) trucker chain and a gear puller

This time, I grabbed some trucker's chain. If you haven't used or seen these, its about 20' long, super thick and has a hook on each end so you can make a loop and have it hook on itself. I used this chain with a come-along to move Hapy around the yard 10 years ago mid-engine swap at the old homestead. Anyway, I took this chain and weaved it around the mags: under over under over. Once pulled tight, I hooked it up so it was a closed loop. I used this chain as a grab-point for my 3-arm gear puller as you can see in the picture above. These pullers are supposed to be pretty strong, so I figured with some steady pull pressure, maybe the wheel would pop. Nope. Instead, I broke the gear puller. You can see one of the bolts sheared off in the picture here, circled in red.

Delayed Maintenance
The more I looked at ways to get after the rims, the more I realized how much delayed maintenance lay beyond them. I haven't ever serviced the wheel bearings. Yeah, that's really bad. I know the wheel cylinders for the rear brakes need replacing. The brake fluid is crazy old. The whole underside needs a lube job. Regardless of how this resolves for the rims, I have quite a bit of work ahead and camping season starts in like a month! Feeling the pressure, I switched gears again.

Give Up and Hire Someone
10) hire a mobile mechanic
I called up the MobilePDX guys. Courtney and company have pulled me out of a few jams with various cars. From removing the stripped lower control arm bolts on Flash to the no-start problem on the A4, they have been great. Courtney arrived with a massive sledge-hammer and set to working on the front passenger-side rim (protected with a thick piece of wood). After a few swings, he could tell that it wasn't going to happen. While the ring of the hammer-on-rim persisted in the air like a church bell, he advised I take it to a tire shop who have better tools and do this kind of thing every day.

11) tire shop

I decided that I wasn't enthusiastic about these rims anyway. They are 16", which for some cars would be small, but on the bus they look a little too matchbox-car-ish, especially the rear wheel. At least to me. More importantly, they are 7" (or maybe 7.5") wide so the footprint is fairly wide. This creates more stability, but also rolling resistance. The biggest issue is trying to turn the steering wheel when the bus isn't moving. That creates considerable pressure on a 50 year old worm/peg style steering box.

So, I bought a new set of 15" rims that are 6" wide that should fit, based on my calculations. Again, a bus rim needs to be 5x112 bolt pattern with a center bore of at least 67mm (new set has a centerbore of 73mm). The stock offset (ET) is 39, so the new rims need to be in that ballpark. These new ones are ET35, so with the increased width, these will fit in the wheel wells. Assuming everything goes as expected, I'll have them mount highway tires onto the rims, since we don't really go off road in this bus, and the highway tread should be quieter than an aggressive off-road tread would have been. If there's room, I may introduce a spacer between the rim and drum/rotor so future removal isn't nearly this much of a pain-in-the-ass. All this depends on the tire shop getting these rims off.

Once I get back from the tire shop with new shoes (and spacer decision made), I'll post a follow up. At this point, I am on the calendar at the local Firestone (no more Les Schwab for me) for next weekend. Thanks, as always for following along.

MGB brake job

Continuing the journey of discovery within my new project, a 1978 MGB. Today, I cover the brakes.

Symptoms
Like any older car that hasn't seen recent maintenance, the brakes were spongy. The pedal didn't depress firmly, but it returned relatively quickly, so I concluded it wasn't a matter of failing lines, it was a case of poor hydraulics at the wheels, possibly at the master cylinder. I took a look at the pads on the front driver wheel and concluded that routine brake service was due. I couldn't know the condition of the rest of the system without tearing each wheel apart, but I didn't want the little car in pieces in my driveway while I did my discovery and then ordered parts. So, I just ordered all 4 wheels worth of complete replacements. With Hapy, this would have been $500 or more. For the MG, it was under $300 including new drums, wheel cylinders, rear mechanicals, rubber hoses and upgraded rotors / pads for the front. The only thing I didn't get in that package was a new or rebuilt master cylinder.

Front

Like everything on the MGB, the wheel is smaller than the VW bus. In one way this presents itself is in how the wheel assembly is put together. The front rotor for the bus sits on the outside of the wheel hub. So, when you want to replace the rotors, its a fairly easy job: remove the wheel, remove the calipers and the rotor is right there looking at you. On the MGB, it goes: wheel/rim, hub, calipers, rotor. What makes this important is that the hub needs to be removed from the rotor (and from the car) for the rotor to be replaced. In the picture on the right, here, you can see the hub to the outside of the new rotor. This install gets messy. Grease can get everywhere. I replaced the rotors, pads and brake lines, and spent a bunch of brake cleaner to keep everything nice and clean.

Rear
The MGB has drum brakes on the rear, much like the old bus. Also like my old bus, removing the drum off the mechanicals was not like opening a present. That is, unless you like spider eggs and brake dust... and rust. I had expected this, so I'd ordered a complete rear replacement, including the drums. The original drums might have been re-used, but I don't have the equipment to check. Replacement original equipment manufacturer (OEM) sourced drums were not expensive and there's a confidence created when the entire set up has been replaced at the same time. The original shoes hadn't been wearing evenly. It looked like someone drove it around with the handbrake on. It happens; no big deal. Once the drum is free, getting the rest of the old stuff off is pretty quick, but take pictures because putting it back together is like an industrial puzzle. Without a target picture, it gets tricky your first time. The picture to the right here is an "after" picture. Like the bus drums, check the adjustment by spinning the wheel and tightening / loosening until you have just a little drag on the spinning wheel. Of course, this can only be done once the drums and rims are back on.

Rubber lines
The MGB has only one rear rubber brake line. It is accessible through the rear passenger tire well, I like the simplicity of the engineering: hard lines run down either side of the rear axle, joining at the rubber line. These short hard lines should reduce the opportunity for pressure to fall out of balance between the two sides. From the rubber line, a single hard line runs from back to front and up to the master cylinder In the front, there are separate hard lines from the master cylinder to each wheel. The last foot or so is the replaceable rubber line.
Remember to wrap the threaded lines with plumbers tape prior to mating the rubber lines to the hard lines or you'll get leaks. Replacing the rubber brake lines is super important. These lines fail from the inside, so if you don't know how old yours are, definitely replace them. Of course, any time the hydraulic system is opened (other than to fill fluid), you need to bleed.

Bleeding and bleeding

pic swiped from Eastwood

Once the system is physically back together, it needs to be filled with brake fluid. Unlike oil, you don't just pour it in the top and wait for it to work its way down. The fluid needs to be pushed or pulled (bled) to the edges of the system. Which wheel to bleed first, second, etc seems to be quite the debate on the internet. Just my opinion, but I think doing the lines in order of shortest to longest makes the most sense. My thinking: once the shortest run is full of fluid, that line won't factor into the bleeding of the others. I guess, if the system is closed except for the cap on the master cylinder reservoir and bleed bolt on the wheel you're working, it really doesn't matter. So, pick a side in the debate and go at it. Since I was on my own for this effort, I used my MityVac at each wheel rather than the pumping-the-pedal method.

Bleeding the front end was relatively quick... once I re-did the rubber hoses with plumbers tape. The rear, though, was a challenge. No matter how much I worked both wheels, I couldn't stop the bubbles from forming. Then... nothing. No more fluid passed through. There was fluid in the reservoir, but nothing passed through to the rear. Pumping the brakes didn't affect it either. I started to think that my spongy brakes cause was the master cylinder. The brake master cylinder had lots of rust on it, but costs had me on the fence to replace it. I disconnected the master cylinder and put my MityVac onto the hard line that went back to the rear end. It held vacuum. So, I concluded that it was the master cylinder that was unable to hold vacuum or pass fluid so I ordered a replacement. I'll get into the master cylinder replacement another time.

As always, thanks for following along...